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sapper44
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Post subject: Combat engineer  Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:46 pm |
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| Krasnoarmeyets |
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Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 7:26 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Springtown, TX
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What color piping would a combat engineer wear on his shoulder boards for the M43 uniform?
Thanks;
Christian
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27th Sapper Battalion 8th Guards Mechanized Corps
503rd RCT
No. 609 squadron RAF
13th DBLE
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Adrian
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:05 pm |
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:17 pm
Posts: 690
Location: Derbyshire
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Hi Christian , welcome to the forum first of all 
The piping would have been Black.
Cheers, Ade. _________________ http://www.2ndguards.com/index.htmlAdrian Borisovitch Stepanov Guards Starshina Unit 2 I/C 2nd Guards Rifle Div.
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sapper44
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Post subject: Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:54 am |
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| Krasnoarmeyets |
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Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 7:26 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Springtown, TX
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Thanks for the info. I am planing to do a combat engineer impression and just couldn't find any good info. Now my next question is about guards units. Did everyone wear the guards badge or just the rifle units in the division?
Thanks;
Christian
_________________
27th Sapper Battalion 8th Guards Mechanized Corps
503rd RCT
No. 609 squadron RAF
13th DBLE
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Kozlov
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Post subject: Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:15 am |
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| Serzhant |
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:09 am
Posts: 235
Location: Taking a dump in the Reichstag
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I think the distinction with regard to wearing badges is actually lower than divisional level. Obviously a division contains a lot of organic elements which won't be rifles.
Could be wrong, but an interesting question...
_________________
"Lenin left us a great legacy, and we have f*cked it up." I.V. Stalin, June 29, 1941
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Kozlov
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:15 am |
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| Serzhant |
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:09 am
Posts: 235
Location: Taking a dump in the Reichstag
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Coming back to this one...
A 1941 Rifle Division was made up of this:
3 Rifle Regiments (with 4 x 76mm & 4 x 45mm)
1 Artillery Regiment (with 16 x 76mm & 8 x 122mm)
2 Sapper Battalions
1 Reconnaissance Company
1 Supply Company
strength: 10,859 men
36 field guns
78 mortars
18 AT guns
A 1943 Rifle Division was made up of this:
3 Rifle Regiments (with 4 x 76mm and 16 x 45mm (12 in GRR))
1 Artillery Regiment (with 20 x 76mm and 12 x 122m)
1 Antitank Battalion (12 x 45mm)
1 Sapper Battalion
1 Signal Company
1 Reconnaissance Company
1 Supply Company
strength: 9,380 men (10,670 in GRD)
44 field guns
160 mortars
48 AT guns
As you can see, the sappers were a divisional asset. Notice how they lost a sapper bn. and gained a seperate anti-tank.
source : P. A. Kurochkin, ed., Obshchevoiskovaya armiya v nastuplenii
(The Combined Arms Army in the Offense.) (Moskva: Voenizdat, 1966)
_________________
"Lenin left us a great legacy, and we have f*cked it up." I.V. Stalin, June 29, 1941
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Zampolit
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:27 am |
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| Krasnoarmeyets |
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Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:40 pm
Posts: 16
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This really isn't a question about sappers, but this seems like the appropriate thread to ask:
Did AT gun crew in the AT gun platoon of an infantry batallion wear artillery piping on their shoulderboards, or infantry? How about the AT battery of an infantry regiment? Or the field gun battery in the infantry regiment?
Or in short, did gun crew outside of artillery regiments wear artillery piping at all?
-Z
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Kozlov
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:32 am |
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| Serzhant |
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:09 am
Posts: 235
Location: Taking a dump in the Reichstag
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In the post-war Soviet Army you would get a situation where a tank regiment in a motor-rifles division (because they had 3 regiments of motor-rifles and one of tanks) would wear the red of motor-rifles but with the collar badge of the tanks.
I am guessing this would be the same - raspberry boards but with artillery devices.
Most traditions like this go back a fair way, usually to Czarist times.
BUT I am not sure, so if anyone with better GPW knowledge would like to correct me, please do!
_________________
"Lenin left us a great legacy, and we have f*cked it up." I.V. Stalin, June 29, 1941
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Starshiiy Rob
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:30 pm |
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| Starshiy Serzhant |
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:03 am
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Location: Peoples Republic of Teesside
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Oddly enough, we had this discussion at the weekend. A friend of mine in the states had run down a reference in a Russian uniform magazine that suggested that at the start of the war the cavalry troop of an infantry regiment wore infantry tabs but with cavalry insignia, which if I've understood it, carries on the postwar pattern described by Andy.
_________________ Radu Raduvich Himea
Yefreytor
Captain's Orderly
http://www.2ndguards.com/index.html
DEATHSPOON
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People's Army
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:47 pm |
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| Serzhant |
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Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:38 pm
Posts: 228
Location: Glorious 13th Guards Division, operating within Norms laid down by Moscow Centre,.
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Most Interesting Comrade Starshiiy Rob, thanks for the Gen...  _________________ Look to the Flag!! , Listen to the Order!!..  I Serve the Soviet Union!! This Rezident has Moscow Centre on Speed Dial!
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Verny Ruslan
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:48 pm |
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| Mladshiy Serzhant |
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:56 am
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Location: Sankt-Petersburg
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_________________
"Okay, dig out yer best booze and lets talk about me 'till the car comes."
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Starshiiy Rob
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:23 pm |
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| Starshiy Serzhant |
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:03 am
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Location: Peoples Republic of Teesside
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Yes, we get the message, you can read Russian. Big f$%^&g whoop.
A translation for us lesser beings, perhaps, comrade splitter?
_________________ Radu Raduvich Himea
Yefreytor
Captain's Orderly
http://www.2ndguards.com/index.html
DEATHSPOON
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People's Army
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:30 pm |
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| Serzhant |
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Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:38 pm
Posts: 228
Location: Glorious 13th Guards Division, operating within Norms laid down by Moscow Centre,.
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Comrade, Nice Information, many thanks.... _________________ Look to the Flag!! , Listen to the Order!!.. I Serve the Soviet Union!! This Rezident has Moscow Centre on Speed Dial!
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Verny Ruslan
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:31 pm |
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| Mladshiy Serzhant |
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:56 am
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Location: Sankt-Petersburg
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They are just pictures of Engineer insignia from 1936 through to 1954 - I thought they would be useful.
_________________
"Okay, dig out yer best booze and lets talk about me 'till the car comes."
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Kozlov
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:38 pm |
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| Serzhant |
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:09 am
Posts: 235
Location: Taking a dump in the Reichstag
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Starshiiy Rob wrote: Oddly enough, we had this discussion at the weekend. A friend of mine in the states had run down a reference in a Russian uniform magazine that suggested that at the start of the war the cavalry troop of an infantry regiment wore infantry tabs but with cavalry insignia, which if I've understood it, carries on the postwar pattern described by Andy.
Comrade, yes, this is the same type of thing I was describing.
Not everything seems to have worked like that though - the only other variant I know of postwar is the reverse of what I described earlier - motor rifles regiment with a tank division who wore tankisti black boards but with the wreathed star of the motor rifles on their collars.
Certainly there were plenty of postwar examples where this pattern might have been followed but it wasn't...
_________________
"Lenin left us a great legacy, and we have f*cked it up." I.V. Stalin, June 29, 1941
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Semyon
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:41 am |
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| Mladshiy Serzhant |
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:49 pm
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bigbad
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:48 pm |
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| Starshiy Serzhant |
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:39 am
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Location: Somewhere oop north
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Well done Robin (aka comrade splitter),a very informative post there.The illustrations are excellent and make things a lot easier than just text.
Thank you Simon also for the translations.
_________________
Name: Valtar Valtarovich Prusins
Rank: Serzhant
Suvarov Section Leader
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martin s
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:02 am |
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| Serzhant |
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:54 am
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Location: chingford
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Great site Robin, dead useful
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Guards Serjant Yevgeni Trubetskoi 2nd Gds rifle div
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